Question:
Oops, that should have been Leuconostoc oenos… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do people have experience with inducing MLF in meads using Lactobacillus oenos or other strains?
Response:
To all, Sorry I haven’t been keeping up with this thread. On Susans comment, the honey was unpasteurized. but with sulfite boiling isn’t necissary. On Franks comment, If you don’t ad acid you aren’t making mead you’re making cough syrup, Yeast will make some nasty tasting stuff if not working in a distinctly acid envrionment. Allan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe the difference was whether or not AllanD used pasteurized or unpasteurized honey (shrug). Susan My second attempt(Jan ‘96) was a "Simple Mead" it took 18 months to finish fermenting and clear and in the middle it went malo-lactic in the secondary fermenter (causing something of a panic when it did) I’m most curious about this observation: I didn’t know that honey contained malic acid. Are you sure? Frank.
Posted from the Oenology Database http://www.arq.net/db/enology using SpiderSilk http://www.arq.com/software/spidersilk
Response:
Wow! This is great. I had overlooked the possibility of added malic (in my limited experience I have only added tartaric and citric). The beauty of this seems to be that you could create conditions for MLF if it is desired, but prevent it if not, simply by not adding any malic acid. So the next question is, does MLF do great things for mead? (In grape wine of course MLF softens acidity but also increases flavour complexity). Do people have experience with inducing MLF in meads using Lactobacillus oenos or other strains? I can feel an experiment coming on… Thanks everyone, Frank.
Response:
2. To boil or not? I read that not boiling makes the mead more difficult to clear. Is it that much more difficult? Does boiling really reduce aromas and flavors by a significant amount? I’ve always boiled my honey and if not boiling it increases the flavor and aroma then I’m afraid..I’m very afraid.= I’ve always gotten a very strong flavor and aroma with boiling the honey 1 hour before fermenting.
This is a Very Big controversy among mead makers. I prefer the no-boil, but I also use already pasteurized honey. I have found that the lighter flavored honeys, when boiled and fermented dry have no flavor left. Leaving it sweet, leaves more honey flavors. I have noticed that those mead makers that first made beer tend toprefer to boil for an hour (just like they did with their beer), and those that made wine first seem to think of boiling honey as sacrilige. It IS a personal choice. Experiment, and learn how you like it, and then make it that way. That’s why you should keep a logbook, so you can duplicate the good stuff. -georg non ani sunt permittendi
Response:
I have noticed that those mead makers that first made beer tend toprefer to boil for an hour (just like they did with their beer), and those that made wine first seem to think of boiling honey as sacrilige. -georg non ani sunt permittendi
I find this paragraph very funny as I am deathly allergic to hops and have never even drunk a beer let alone made one. = Beth Ann Snead
Response:
I have noticed that those mead makers that first made beer tend toprefer to boil for an hour (just like they did with their beer), and those that made wine first seem to think of boiling honey as sacrilige. -georg non ani sunt permittendi I find this paragraph very funny as I am deathly allergic to hops and have never even drunk a beer let alone made one. = Beth Ann Snead
I said it was more of a tendency- it’s not a guaranteed rule of them. Make and drink what you will. -georg non ani sunt permittendi
Response:
I have noticed that those mead makers that first made beer tend toprefer to boil for an hour (just like they did with their beer), and those that made wine first seem to think of boiling honey as sacrilige.
Yow! I’ve brewed beer and mead for years, and I’m a "boiler," but long boiling times like this *are* sacrilege. Boil it for an hour? May as well just start with glucose or invert sugar and call the result "purple jesus" like the bucket batches of BYOB punch from the college days. It IS a personal choice. Experiment, and learn how you like it, and then make it that way. That’s why you should keep a logbook, so you can duplicate the good stuff.
Excellent advice. By the way, my best ever mead was made without a drop of water. Instead I used fresh maple sap, right out of the tree — you must boil the sap or else it will spoil. I called the result "guerrila ontology ritual mead" and it was spectacular. While it lasted, it graced many a wedding feast. Jace Ethics is using free will to choose good over evil. Time Dilation: http://www.nethawk.com/~jcrouch/dilation.htm
Response:
I suspect that beer makers boil mead because they were unfamilar with sulfite? My first attempt EVER at a fermented beverage was hard cider(15 years ago) and it went acidic. My second attempt(Jan ‘96) was a "Simple Mead" it took 18 months to finish fermenting and clear and in the middle it went malo-lactic in the secondary fermenter (causing something of a panic when it did) and I never boiled it. It was excellent when bottled and I expect when it has aged some it will be even better… Allan Posted from the Oenology Database http://www.arq.net/db/enology using SpiderSilk http://www.arq.com/software/spidersilk
Response:
My second attempt(Jan ‘96) was a "Simple Mead" it took 18 months to finish fermenting and clear and in the middle it went malo-lactic in the secondary fermenter (causing something of a panic when it did)
I’m most curious about this observation: I didn’t know that honey contained malic acid. Are you sure? Frank.
Response:
Maybe the difference was whether or not AllanD used pasteurized or unpasteurized honey (shrug). Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My second attempt(Jan ‘96) was a "Simple Mead" it took 18 months to finish fermenting and clear and in the middle it went malo-lactic in the secondary fermenter (causing something of a panic when it did) I’m most curious about this observation: I didn’t know that honey contained malic acid. Are you sure? Frank.
Response:
My final suggestion: Try a number of 1-gallon batches before moving to 5 gallons. You’ll get the techniques down pat and learn what works for you. Mead is a great way to experiment. Try spices, fruit, different honey, different yeasts. Try making some dry and some sweet. Personally, I think you can go wilder making mead than making wine. Honey provides a great base for a lot of different flavors.
These were all wonderful suggestions and I applaud (and thank) you. I couldn’t have written it better myself. Some spices to play with (when you get ready to just play): cloves, anise, allspice, nutmeg, ginger (slices of root), cinnamon, vanilla beans, mace, cardamom, and anything else that strikes your fancy. -georg non ani sunt permittendi
Response:
Hello, I’ve been doing a lot of research on mead over the last couple months and I’m about ready to brew my first batch. I’ve a couple questions though. 1. Some places say mead is ready to drink soon after bottling while other places say it takes at least a year for mead to be drinkable. This was for a "traditional" mead. Typically, how long before it is drinkable?
Personal choice. You may prefer aged or/AND unaged mead. It’s flavor changes greatly with aging and as far as I’m concerned it’s good anytime. 2. To boil or not? I read that not boiling makes the mead more difficult to clear. Is it that much more difficult? Does boiling really reduce aromas and flavors by a significant amount?
I’ve always boiled my honey and if not boiling it increases the flavor and aroma then I’m afraid..I’m very afraid.= I’ve always gotten a very strong flavor and aroma with boiling the honey 1 hour before fermenting. 3. Finally, any tips you can give me?
Well, the tip I usually give to first time mead makers is to remember to boil your honey. Beth
Response:
Hi Group Composition of Honey – by % Component Average Std. Dev. Range Moisture 17.2 1.5 12.2 – 22.9 Fructose 34.8 1.8 30.9 – 44.3 Glucose 30.3 3.0 22.0 – 40.7 Sucrose 1.3 0.9 0.2 – 7.6 Maltose* 7.3 2.1 2.7 – 16.0 Higher Sugars 1.4 1.1 0.1 – 3.8 Free Acid as Gluconic 0.43 0.16 0.13 – 0.92 Lactone as Gluconolactone 0.14 0.07 0.0 – 0.37 Total Acid as Gluconic 0.57 0.20 0.17 – 1.17 Ash 0.169 0.15 0.02 – 1.028 Nitrogen 0.041 0.026 0.00 – 0.133 pH 3.91 3.42 – 6.10 Diatase 20.8 9.8 2.1 – 62.1 *Reducing disaccharides YEASTS IN HONEY Nematospora ashbya gossypii Saccharomyces bisporus Saccharomyces torulosus Schizosaccharomyces octosporus Schwanniomyces occidentilis Torula mellis Zygosaccharomyces barkeri Zygosaccharomyces japonicus Zygosaccharomyces mellis Zygosaccharomyces mellis acidi Zygosaccharomyces nussbaumeri Zygosaccharomyces priorianus Zygosaccharomyces richteri YEASTS IN GREEN HONEY Torulopsis magnoliae Sacchromyces mellis Torulopsis stellata Torulopsis apicola All of these yeasts are destroyed in 1.0 minutes at 155 deg F (68.3 deg C) Personal preference is not to boil, it serves no useful purpose and destroys the more complex overtones. There are hundreds of types of honey (determined by the floral source) and each has a different flavor. If you find one too strong – get a milder one. Alfalfa would be one of the mildest and buckwheat it the absolute strongest. Orange blossom is a good middle of the road. Gary Bradshaw GBees Honey Farm, Beekeeping and Home Brewing Supplies, free catalogs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Susan, Pasteurization, or not, it would not create malic acid where none existed otherwise. I believe that Frank is correct and there no malic acid in honey. I checked what resources I have immediately on hand and they don’t mention it one way or the other. Does anyone have a definitive source handy that they can cite? Marc Maybe the difference was whether or not AllanD used pasteurized or unpasteurized honey (shrug). Susan My second attempt(Jan ‘96) was a "Simple Mead" it took 18 months to finish fermenting and clear and in the middle it went malo-lactic in the secondary fermenter (causing something of a panic when it did) I’m most curious about this observation: I didn’t know that honey contained malic acid. Are you sure? Frank. — Marc Shapiro http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/ "If you drink melomel every day, you will live to be 150 years old, unless your wife shoots you." — Dr. Ferenc Androczi, Winemaker of the Little Hungary Winery
Response:
what if he added acid blend. that has malic in it.
That would certainly do it. Well, Allan, can you clear up this mystery? Did you add acid blend (or anything else which might have contained malic acid) to that batch? Enquiring minds want to know! Marc Susan, Pasteurization, or not, it would not create malic acid where none existed otherwise… — Marc Shapiro http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/ "If you drink melomel every day, you will live to be 150 years old, unless your wife shoots you." — Dr. Ferenc Androczi, Winemaker of the Little Hungary Winery
– Marc Shapiro http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/ "If you drink melomel every day, you will live to be 150 years old, unless your wife shoots you." — Dr. Ferenc Androczi, Winemaker of the Little Hungary Winery
Response:
what if he added acid blend. that has malic in it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Susan, Pasteurization, or not, it would not create malic acid where none existed otherwise. I believe that Frank is correct and there no malic acid in honey. I checked what resources I have immediately on hand and they don’t mention it one way or the other. Does anyone have a definitive source handy that they can cite? Marc Maybe the difference was whether or not AllanD used pasteurized or unpasteurized honey (shrug). Susan My second attempt(Jan ‘96) was a "Simple Mead" it took 18 months to finish fermenting and clear and in the middle it went malo-lactic in the secondary fermenter (causing something of a panic when it did) I’m most curious about this observation: I didn’t know that honey contained malic acid. Are you sure? Frank. — Marc Shapiro http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/ "If you drink melomel every day, you will live to be 150 years old, unless your wife shoots you." — Dr. Ferenc Androczi, Winemaker of the Little Hungary Winery
Response:
My second attempt(Jan ‘96) was a "Simple Mead" it took 18 months to finish fermenting and clear and in the middle it went malo-lactic in the secondary fermenter (causing something of a panic when it did) I’m most curious about this observation: I didn’t know that honey contained malic acid. Are you sure?
There is a mead-makers’ acid blend that contains malic acid. I believe generic acid blend also contains malic acid. If you add them, it may undergo MLF. Some simple meads contain fruits. This would also increase the odds of MLF. -georg non ani sunt permittendi
Response:
Susan, Pasteurization, or not, it would not create malic acid where none existed otherwise. I believe that Frank is correct and there no malic acid in honey. I checked what resources I have immediately on hand and they don’t mention it one way or the other. Does anyone have a definitive source handy that they can cite? Marc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe the difference was whether or not AllanD used pasteurized or unpasteurized honey (shrug). Susan My second attempt(Jan ‘96) was a "Simple Mead" it took 18 months to finish fermenting and clear and in the middle it went malo-lactic in the secondary fermenter (causing something of a panic when it did) I’m most curious about this observation: I didn’t know that honey contained malic acid. Are you sure? Frank.
– Marc Shapiro http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/ "If you drink melomel every day, you will live to be 150 years old, unless your wife shoots you." — Dr. Ferenc Androczi, Winemaker of the Little Hungary Winery
Response:
1. Some places say mead is ready to drink soon after bottling
while other places say it takes at least a year for mead to be drinkable. This was for a "traditional" mead. Typically, how long before it is drinkable?
It depends on the kind of mead and the strength. A lower-alcohol, traditional mead could be ready fairly soon. Stronger alcohol or more spices/fruit/flavorings require longer times to mellow out the flavor. Either way, if you can wait at least six month for it to age then do so! I’ve had batches that were okay within a month of bottling, but they were very good after aging a while. Also, stronger-flavored honeys like buckwheat take longer to age than milder honey. 2. To boil or not? I read that not boiling makes the mead more difficult to clear. Is it that much more difficult? Does boiling really reduce aromas and flavors by a significant amount?
Ah! The big mead controversy. Yes, boiling will make it easier to clear. Mead is not really difficult to clear if you don’t boil, it just takes longer. I personally don’t boil the honey because I’m in no great hurry & it usually needs to age anyway. I can’t really taste any big difference between boiling and not boiling. Others say they can taste a difference. I would suggest trying a 1 gallon batch of boiled and not-boiled using the same honey and additives. Decide for yourself. 3. Finally, any tips you can give me?
If you’re making a traditional mead, use nutrient! Especially if you’re concerned with time. Honey doesn’t have all of the nutrients necessary to make yeast really happy. It will ferment without them, but it just goes a lot faster if you use a little nutrient. This isn’t necessary if you’re making a melomel (with fruit). The fruit will provide the additional nutrients. If you decide to boil, do not leave the pot of water on the stove while you add the honey. It will fall to the bottom and scorch. Take the pot off the heat, mix the honey into the water, and return to heat. If you don’t boil, you might want to use sulfites to protect against germs and bacteria, but that’s a personal choice as well. Some people choose to bring the must up to a high enough temperature to pasteurize it to avoid bacteria and wild yeast, but not high enough to boil & drive off the honey aroma/flavor. Another tip – if it tastes lousy after fermenting, DON’T THROW IT OUT! Sometimes mead tastes like Listerine just after it has finished. Sometimes it tastes worse. Six months to a year of aging can work wonders on the worst meads. Unless you see things growing in it or it tastes like vinegar, give it a chance. My final suggestion: Try a number of 1-gallon batches before moving to 5 gallons. You’ll get the techniques down pat and learn what works for you. Mead is a great way to experiment. Try spices, fruit, different honey, different yeasts. Try making some dry and some sweet. Personally, I think you can go wilder making mead than making wine. Honey provides a great base for a lot of different flavors. Good Luck Sheryl Nance-Durst
Response:
Hello, I’ve been doing a lot of research on mead over the last couple months and I’m about ready to brew my first batch. I’ve a couple questions though. 1. Some places say mead is ready to drink soon after bottling while other places say it takes at least a year for mead to be drinkable. This was for a "traditional" mead. Typically, how long before it is drinkable?
Typically ( I’m probably wrong there) it is drinkable 8 months after bottling. You could probably drink it sooner…but why monkey with a good thing? 2. To boil or not? I read that not boiling makes the mead more difficult to clear. Is it that much more difficult? Does boiling really reduce aromas and flavors by a significant amount?
In the recipe I have (Peach Mead) no where does it suggest boiling. Just the regular hot water and the like as you find with other recipes. 3. Finally, any tips you can give me?
As much as you may want to sample your results as soon as possible…to get the best flavor…follow the recipe and let it age what it should. Susan
Response:
Hello, I’ve been doing a lot of research on mead over the last couple months and I’m about ready to brew my first batch. I’ve a couple questions though. 1. Some places say mead is ready to drink soon after bottling while other places say it takes at least a year for mead to be drinkable. This was for a "traditional" mead. Typically, how long before it is drinkable? 2. To boil or not? I read that not boiling makes the mead more difficult to clear. Is it that much more difficult? Does boiling really reduce aromas and flavors by a significant amount? 3. Finally, any tips you can give me? -Kris — I agree with one Bokononist idea. I agree that all religions, including Bokononism, are nothing but lies. – Kurt Vonnegut Jr. "Cat’s Cradle"
Response:
Categories: Wine Equipment | 
No Comments »
Mike MTM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, Damn, now I’m not clear on the effective usage of K-Metabisulfite…. Have I been using a bunch of this stuff for nothing? Will putting say 500ml in a primary fermenter or a carboy & splashing it around do any good? Or, will keeping a half gallon jug of solution for dipping a hydrometer, spoon or anything else into before putting it in the wine, is this useless? Or storing carboys or primaries with 500ml of solution in them, any good? What are the effective uses of K-Metabisulfite? Perhaps I have been a bit obsessive about what I thought were good sanitation practices, have I been completely off base doing these things, like pouring solution over everything I use after washing & before letting it come in contact with the wine? Jeff 
BTW, don’t mention the content of your bags to anyone, the dimwits at the counter may give you a hard time. Jean-Pierre Boileau, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.